The U.S. State Department is evacuating the embassy in Ukraine, signaling that its personnel believe a Russian invasion of Ukraine may be imminent. Such a move by Russia would be the most consequential invasion in Europe since World War II.
If Russia acts, what is America’s responsibility to Ukraine?
Two of Jane’s Opinion colleagues, Bret Stephens and Farah Stockman, join her to tackle that question today. Both Bret and Farah have reported on foreign policy. Bret, a columnist for Times Opinion, told Jane: “I think Ukraine ought to be what Ukrainians want it to be. Vladimir Putin is unwilling to let Ukrainians decide their own future.”
[You can listen to this episode of “The Argument” on Apple, Spotify or Google or wherever you get your podcasts.]
Farah, a member of the Times editorial board, sees wars as dirty pursuits that are often antithetical to democracy and freedom. Farah argues that America needs to focus on its own battles before engaging in international conflicts. “We need to do a better job picking our battles, we really do, because we have to protect ourselves and our own democracy first,” she says. “We cannot help anyone else if we’re in disarray. And guess what? We’re in disarray right now, we really are.”
Mentioned in this episode:
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“Bring Back the Free World” by Bret Stephens.
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“Putin’s Pickle” by Julia Ioffe in Puck.
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“Stop asking what Putin wants and start asking what Ukrainians want” by Mychailo Wynnyckyj
(A full transcript of the episode will be available midday on the Times website.)
Thoughts? Email us at argument@nytimes.com or leave us a voice mail message at (347) 915-4324. We want to hear what you’re arguing about with your family, your friends and your frenemies. (We may use excerpts from your message in a future episode.)
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“The Argument” is produced by Phoebe Lett, Elisa Gutierrez and Vishakha Darbha and edited by Anabel Bacon and Alison Bruzek; fact-checking by Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Pat McCusker; and audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.
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Opinion | ‘This is About the Future of Freedom’: What Does America Owe Ukrainians? - The New York Times
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